Saturday, July 01, 2006
WELL, AT LEAST THEY DIDN'T TOTALLY FUCK IT UP
1. Kevin was too soft in both the humor and menace department. Langella would have been better as Lex. In some ways, Spacey seemed ashamed to be playing the part.
2. They made a good decision to avoid the Lex-as-public-billionaire route, which I never liked. "Boo captialism." What else is new?
3. Lex needed funnier dialogue. Gene Hackman has an edge that Spacey doesn't. Spacey's lack of edge works for him in appropriate parts, like AMERICAN BEAUTY or BEYOND THE SEA. I know people who HATE the humor in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, but I really like it, especially its passive aggression. "Otisburg?" "Do you want to see a long arm, Otis?" "Cat-like reflexes." "We all have our faults. Mine's in California."
4. Superman and Lex never have a conversation. Donner had them exchange banter. I liked it when they talked.
5. Perry White is a lovable curmudgeon. Where was that?
6. Ottman writes boring music. When Williams' music stops and his begins, it shows.
7. I liked the treatment of Superman 1 as basically canonical. I liked the references.
8. I liked seeing Clark drink a beer.
9. I liked the threat of Lex eating the dog.
10. I think Superman fixed what was left of his infant spaceship, and used that to get to-and-from.
11. My script polish? Superman goes to the remnants of Krypton. It's a burnt hulk. He returns to Earth, lonlier than ever. Lex resurrects Krypton (on Earth) and it doesn't look like shit. Now, Superman has to choose between having Krypton-on-Earth or doing the right thing. There's a nice bit of internal conflict. That didn't happen.
12. Why didn't Superman bleed?
13. Why was his costume fucked up?
14. I liked Routh.
15. Bosworth was a boring actress for a blandly-written part.
16. I liked how Lex made his new money.
17. I liked Parker Posey.
18. Great opening credits.
19. Great plane rescue. Tears flowed. I wish more like this had happened.
20. At a 3:10pm show, I fell asleep during the rooftop reunion scene. And I have horrible insomnia.
21. PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION was better.
22. X3 was better.
24. It needed another script polish.
25. The Reeve movies always got a boost when Superman had to out-think his opponent. Brute strength is only so interesting for so long.
26. Why doesn't an intelligent guy like Lex realize that his new continent looks like shit and will probably be very hard to develop as real estate? Since all his "advanced alien technology" does is grow big crystals, we don't get any idea of what he'd do when the surviving nations drop hydrogen bombs on him. Let's see that technology do more.
27. Great use of Brando.
28. It was mature and honest that he didn't get the girl. James Marsden played a good fellow.
29. So, was he dead or wasn't he? Why did they put someone with no vital signs in a hospital room. Having that scene be in a morgue would have been really nice.
30. Is it me, or did people seem not to be too unhappy about his death? That really should have been a WRATH OF KHAN-level gut-wrencher. Hell, it looked like his mother was smiling. Even if she had faith in his ability to rise again, this was a dramatic misstep.
31. The kid was okay. As with the ending of TERMINATOR 3, they've done a brave thing; they've upset the pattern so much with a new element that it will *have* to be dealt with in the sequel.
32. At least the myriad ways in which it could have been *seriously* fucked up were avoided. (Tim Burton and Nicholas cage, anyone? How about a little Ang Lee inaction?) It hasn't created problems so vast that a good sequel can't fix.
1. Kevin was too soft in both the humor and menace department. Langella would have been better as Lex. In some ways, Spacey seemed ashamed to be playing the part.
2. They made a good decision to avoid the Lex-as-public-billionaire route, which I never liked. "Boo captialism." What else is new?
3. Lex needed funnier dialogue. Gene Hackman has an edge that Spacey doesn't. Spacey's lack of edge works for him in appropriate parts, like AMERICAN BEAUTY or BEYOND THE SEA. I know people who HATE the humor in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE, but I really like it, especially its passive aggression. "Otisburg?" "Do you want to see a long arm, Otis?" "Cat-like reflexes." "We all have our faults. Mine's in California."
4. Superman and Lex never have a conversation. Donner had them exchange banter. I liked it when they talked.
5. Perry White is a lovable curmudgeon. Where was that?
6. Ottman writes boring music. When Williams' music stops and his begins, it shows.
7. I liked the treatment of Superman 1 as basically canonical. I liked the references.
8. I liked seeing Clark drink a beer.
9. I liked the threat of Lex eating the dog.
10. I think Superman fixed what was left of his infant spaceship, and used that to get to-and-from.
11. My script polish? Superman goes to the remnants of Krypton. It's a burnt hulk. He returns to Earth, lonlier than ever. Lex resurrects Krypton (on Earth) and it doesn't look like shit. Now, Superman has to choose between having Krypton-on-Earth or doing the right thing. There's a nice bit of internal conflict. That didn't happen.
12. Why didn't Superman bleed?
13. Why was his costume fucked up?
14. I liked Routh.
15. Bosworth was a boring actress for a blandly-written part.
16. I liked how Lex made his new money.
17. I liked Parker Posey.
18. Great opening credits.
19. Great plane rescue. Tears flowed. I wish more like this had happened.
20. At a 3:10pm show, I fell asleep during the rooftop reunion scene. And I have horrible insomnia.
21. PRAIRIE HOME COMPANION was better.
22. X3 was better.
24. It needed another script polish.
25. The Reeve movies always got a boost when Superman had to out-think his opponent. Brute strength is only so interesting for so long.
26. Why doesn't an intelligent guy like Lex realize that his new continent looks like shit and will probably be very hard to develop as real estate? Since all his "advanced alien technology" does is grow big crystals, we don't get any idea of what he'd do when the surviving nations drop hydrogen bombs on him. Let's see that technology do more.
27. Great use of Brando.
28. It was mature and honest that he didn't get the girl. James Marsden played a good fellow.
29. So, was he dead or wasn't he? Why did they put someone with no vital signs in a hospital room. Having that scene be in a morgue would have been really nice.
30. Is it me, or did people seem not to be too unhappy about his death? That really should have been a WRATH OF KHAN-level gut-wrencher. Hell, it looked like his mother was smiling. Even if she had faith in his ability to rise again, this was a dramatic misstep.
31. The kid was okay. As with the ending of TERMINATOR 3, they've done a brave thing; they've upset the pattern so much with a new element that it will *have* to be dealt with in the sequel.
32. At least the myriad ways in which it could have been *seriously* fucked up were avoided. (Tim Burton and Nicholas cage, anyone? How about a little Ang Lee inaction?) It hasn't created problems so vast that a good sequel can't fix.
# posted by Doctor Lao @ 7:55 PM 
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I haven't seen it yet, but here are some comments on your comments, to be expanded once I actually watch the thing:
2. Yeah, I've never liked this trend of turning comic-book evildoers into CEOs, not because it makes capitalism look bad, but because it implies that CEOs are more colorful and imaginative than they really are. If Koslowski, Lay and Co. dressed in exoskeletons, built death rays, and hung out in undersea fortresses, I'd have a lot more sympathy for them.
3. The humor in the first SUPERMAN movie sucks...except when it comes out of the mouths of Hackman and Beatty. My favorite exchange: Superman: "This is how twisted minds amuse themselves--by planning the deaths of innocent people?" Lex (poker-faced): "No--by CAUSING the deaths of innocent people."
5. The problem with Perry White is that, nowadays, editors don't really have a lot of power at papers. Like J. Jonah Jamison, he's kind of an anachronism.
25. The whole Superman mythos is, contrary to popular belief, not an adolescent power fantasy, but a continuing tale of teenage powerlessness. Superman's physical powers are never enough to defeat his enemies, even those who, like Lex, have no physical superpowers themselves. Lex lords over Superman with an intellectual mastery of the world that Superman always has to catch up to.
So that's it for now. I'll report back soon.
2. Yeah, I've never liked this trend of turning comic-book evildoers into CEOs, not because it makes capitalism look bad, but because it implies that CEOs are more colorful and imaginative than they really are. If Koslowski, Lay and Co. dressed in exoskeletons, built death rays, and hung out in undersea fortresses, I'd have a lot more sympathy for them.
3. The humor in the first SUPERMAN movie sucks...except when it comes out of the mouths of Hackman and Beatty. My favorite exchange: Superman: "This is how twisted minds amuse themselves--by planning the deaths of innocent people?" Lex (poker-faced): "No--by CAUSING the deaths of innocent people."
5. The problem with Perry White is that, nowadays, editors don't really have a lot of power at papers. Like J. Jonah Jamison, he's kind of an anachronism.
25. The whole Superman mythos is, contrary to popular belief, not an adolescent power fantasy, but a continuing tale of teenage powerlessness. Superman's physical powers are never enough to defeat his enemies, even those who, like Lex, have no physical superpowers themselves. Lex lords over Superman with an intellectual mastery of the world that Superman always has to catch up to.
So that's it for now. I'll report back soon.
The humor in SUPERMAN sucks except for Ned Beatty and Gene Hackman? Well, it's a good thing they handle 99% of the humor in the film.
Actually, let me take another stab at the "Hackmanless humor in SUPERMAN sucks" discussion. I spent several hours last night chatting about the wonders of the Donner film, and we kept coming back to the appropriate use of humor.
"Sucks" is a very strong word. Many of the funny moments that we remembered most fondly did not have Hackman or Beatty.
1. Pretty much any of the Daily Planet stuff is good for a smile, if not a laugh. Jackie Cooper rants and raves pretty well, and Reeve's gift for planned accidents proves why Bogdanovich cast him in NOISES OFF. The problems in *that* film weren't Reeve's.
2. Lois' inability to spell horrific words like "rapist" and "massacre" was good. It also hinted at the sensationalist material that she wrote about with oblivious professionalism.
3. The phone half-booth. Worked then, works now.
4. "That is one BAD outFIT."
5. "How big are you... er, how TALL are you?" That works because of Kidder's genuine awkwardness. What could have been a smutty moment actually got a very warm, human laugh.
For a movie that's not ostensibly a comedy, I can't think of any of the humor in the film that flat-out sucks.
Reeve is especially good. He seems to be in on his own joke. Superman is a square, realizes he's a square, makes no apologies for being who he is, and does so in a way that is neither smug, hipper-than-thou, or naive. This comes out in his big scene with Lex and his rooftop interview with Lois. It's a really brilliantly nuanced performance.
"Sucks" is a very strong word. Many of the funny moments that we remembered most fondly did not have Hackman or Beatty.
1. Pretty much any of the Daily Planet stuff is good for a smile, if not a laugh. Jackie Cooper rants and raves pretty well, and Reeve's gift for planned accidents proves why Bogdanovich cast him in NOISES OFF. The problems in *that* film weren't Reeve's.
2. Lois' inability to spell horrific words like "rapist" and "massacre" was good. It also hinted at the sensationalist material that she wrote about with oblivious professionalism.
3. The phone half-booth. Worked then, works now.
4. "That is one BAD outFIT."
5. "How big are you... er, how TALL are you?" That works because of Kidder's genuine awkwardness. What could have been a smutty moment actually got a very warm, human laugh.
For a movie that's not ostensibly a comedy, I can't think of any of the humor in the film that flat-out sucks.
Reeve is especially good. He seems to be in on his own joke. Superman is a square, realizes he's a square, makes no apologies for being who he is, and does so in a way that is neither smug, hipper-than-thou, or naive. This comes out in his big scene with Lex and his rooftop interview with Lois. It's a really brilliantly nuanced performance.
Actually, let me take another stab at the "Hackmanless humor in SUPERMAN sucks" discussion. I spent several hours last night chatting about the wonders of the Donner film, and we kept coming back to the appropriate use of humor.
"Sucks" is a very strong word. Many of the funny moments that we remembered most fondly did not have Hackman or Beatty.
1. Pretty much any of the Daily Planet stuff is good for a smile, if not a laugh. Jackie Cooper rants and raves pretty well, and Reeve's gift for planned accidents proves why Bogdanovich cast him in NOISES OFF. The problems in *that* film weren't Reeve's.
2. Lois' inability to spell horrific words like "rapist" and "massacre" was good. It also hinted at the sensationalist material that she wrote about with oblivious professionalism.
3. The phone half-booth. Worked then, works now.
4. "That is one BAD outFIT."
5. "How big are you... er, how TALL are you?" That works because of Kidder's genuine awkwardness. What could have been a smutty moment actually got a very warm, human laugh.
For a movie that's not ostensibly a comedy, I can't think of any of the humor in the film that flat-out sucks.
Reeve is especially good. He seems to be in on his own joke. Superman is a square, realizes he's a square, makes no apologies for being who he is, and does so in a way that is neither smug, hipper-than-thou, or naive. This comes out in his big scene with Lex and his rooftop interview with Lois. It's a really brilliantly nuanced performance.
"Sucks" is a very strong word. Many of the funny moments that we remembered most fondly did not have Hackman or Beatty.
1. Pretty much any of the Daily Planet stuff is good for a smile, if not a laugh. Jackie Cooper rants and raves pretty well, and Reeve's gift for planned accidents proves why Bogdanovich cast him in NOISES OFF. The problems in *that* film weren't Reeve's.
2. Lois' inability to spell horrific words like "rapist" and "massacre" was good. It also hinted at the sensationalist material that she wrote about with oblivious professionalism.
3. The phone half-booth. Worked then, works now.
4. "That is one BAD outFIT."
5. "How big are you... er, how TALL are you?" That works because of Kidder's genuine awkwardness. What could have been a smutty moment actually got a very warm, human laugh.
For a movie that's not ostensibly a comedy, I can't think of any of the humor in the film that flat-out sucks.
Reeve is especially good. He seems to be in on his own joke. Superman is a square, realizes he's a square, makes no apologies for being who he is, and does so in a way that is neither smug, hipper-than-thou, or naive. This comes out in his big scene with Lex and his rooftop interview with Lois. It's a really brilliantly nuanced performance.
"That is one BAD outFIT" would be a prime example of sucky humor. I remember seeing the film when it was re-released into theaters, and that groaner already sounded dated. I also never thought Margot Kidder was funny. "You've got me--who's got you?!?!" may have provoked gales of laughter from the plebes, but none from THIS geek extraordinaire. But yes, Reeve is good in everything.
I may complain a bit about Ms. Kidder, yet I will say this: She's a lot better than Ms. Bosworth. I saw SUPERMAN RETURNS on Monday, and I really wanted to like it more. Routh was very good, and I even thought Spacey was a pretty solid Lex. The big problem was Lois. The central drama of the movie isn't Superman saving the world, it's Superman trying to get back into his life--and into Lois'--after 5 years away, and getting a decisive cold shoulder. But she's not particularly fascinating or interesting, or worth returning to earth for. Also, Bosworth seems to be reaching for that Oscar with every line, while everyone else has a lighter, easier-but-still-serious touch. The other thing I didn't like about the movie was the length. A lot of what TSTpilot and I referred to in our Dr.-Who-watching days as the runaround factor. The ending didn't feel particularly suspenseful to me--nowhere near as suspenseful as saving the plane.
On the plus side, there's Parker Posey, great special effects, and a neat re-use of the Fortress of Solitude set design. One of the neat things about the first movie was the way Kryptonian archtecture looked, and it was interesting to see that become a plot point. As far as Ottman's score goes, I liked the music when Superman takes Lois into the air, but that may have been from the Williams score. Ottman really needed to focus on his editing duties and whack twenty minutes off of the last act.
I may complain a bit about Ms. Kidder, yet I will say this: She's a lot better than Ms. Bosworth. I saw SUPERMAN RETURNS on Monday, and I really wanted to like it more. Routh was very good, and I even thought Spacey was a pretty solid Lex. The big problem was Lois. The central drama of the movie isn't Superman saving the world, it's Superman trying to get back into his life--and into Lois'--after 5 years away, and getting a decisive cold shoulder. But she's not particularly fascinating or interesting, or worth returning to earth for. Also, Bosworth seems to be reaching for that Oscar with every line, while everyone else has a lighter, easier-but-still-serious touch. The other thing I didn't like about the movie was the length. A lot of what TSTpilot and I referred to in our Dr.-Who-watching days as the runaround factor. The ending didn't feel particularly suspenseful to me--nowhere near as suspenseful as saving the plane.
On the plus side, there's Parker Posey, great special effects, and a neat re-use of the Fortress of Solitude set design. One of the neat things about the first movie was the way Kryptonian archtecture looked, and it was interesting to see that become a plot point. As far as Ottman's score goes, I liked the music when Superman takes Lois into the air, but that may have been from the Williams score. Ottman really needed to focus on his editing duties and whack twenty minutes off of the last act.
To each his own, and call me a plebe, but "THAT is one BAD outFIT," still makes *me* laugh.
Yes, it's dated, but that's the point. So are Jack Hill's movies, and they're classics. But I've never worn particularly PC glasses when seeing films.
Looking at 70's fashions, Superman, indeed, looked like a pimp. It's one of the places that the film -- for me -- winks at the essential silliness of costumed superheroes without it becoming ridicule. It lets everyone know that you can *not* take yourself *too* seriously without jeopardizing your dignity. As I recall, I think Reeve even gives the guy a funny bit of a nod that buttons the gag. In the hands of a squarer actor, the buttoning glance wouldn't have worked, nor would it have worked in the hands of a hipper actor. But Reeve combined the best parts of both types of actor. As I recall, Reeve is who makes the gag work for me and for many other lowbrows.
Also, I like, "You've got me? Who's got YOU?"
It's a good natured meet-cute. And, for a world without a Superman, it's a very logical question. I mean, if we wanted to see utter realism, she'd probably begin screaming wildly before vomiting and passing out from sheer terror.
Maybe you haven't suffered through as many "action comedies" as I've made the mistake of seeing, but go rent the Eddie Murphy I SPY or CHARLIE'S ANGELS: FULL THROTTLE. I think you'll see the "suckage" in a whole, new light.
Yes, it's dated, but that's the point. So are Jack Hill's movies, and they're classics. But I've never worn particularly PC glasses when seeing films.
Looking at 70's fashions, Superman, indeed, looked like a pimp. It's one of the places that the film -- for me -- winks at the essential silliness of costumed superheroes without it becoming ridicule. It lets everyone know that you can *not* take yourself *too* seriously without jeopardizing your dignity. As I recall, I think Reeve even gives the guy a funny bit of a nod that buttons the gag. In the hands of a squarer actor, the buttoning glance wouldn't have worked, nor would it have worked in the hands of a hipper actor. But Reeve combined the best parts of both types of actor. As I recall, Reeve is who makes the gag work for me and for many other lowbrows.
Also, I like, "You've got me? Who's got YOU?"
It's a good natured meet-cute. And, for a world without a Superman, it's a very logical question. I mean, if we wanted to see utter realism, she'd probably begin screaming wildly before vomiting and passing out from sheer terror.
Maybe you haven't suffered through as many "action comedies" as I've made the mistake of seeing, but go rent the Eddie Murphy I SPY or CHARLIE'S ANGELS: FULL THROTTLE. I think you'll see the "suckage" in a whole, new light.
Of course--I didn't find that stuff funny because of my PC GLASSES! How obvious! And I didn't like Margot Kidder's performance because of my deep commitment to feminist principles! Helpless women are no laughing matter, people!
Either that, or the gags just weren't funny. Like puns.
No, no, it was the PC glasses. The same ones that prevented me from laughing during the comic tour de force that was Scary Movie II. Now I know.
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Either that, or the gags just weren't funny. Like puns.
No, no, it was the PC glasses. The same ones that prevented me from laughing during the comic tour de force that was Scary Movie II. Now I know.
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